It’s actually really common. Ease of access, no consent forms, etc.

Sween, I doubt it’s common practice to use the experimenter’s own genetic material for testing purposes, but I think he might use his own in this case. The reason being that at the time he certainly thought he was human, and given that anybody might be a Cylon, he might operate under the assumption that the only genetic material he could trust to be human would be his own.

I figure if they didn’t SHOW him testing himself, they (the writers) can say he didn’t.

And Baltar IS self-centered enough that I could see the thought never crossing his mind that he could be a cylon… until it was too late and he no longer had access to his working cylon tester.

Is it common experimental practice to use the experimenter’s own genetic material for testing purposes? He would have to use whatever cylon samples they could get get a hold of (Boomer, Leoben?), but as for human samples, where would he go to get samples? Or would he just use standard published genetic mapping available to Colonial researchers? Hmmm… things I don’t know…

Also, I’ve not understood Baltar’s obsession with whether he was a Cylon or not - I would imagine that he would have tested himself when he had the Cylon tester (true, he didn’t think at the time he was a Cylon, but it seems fair to suppose that he would have used himself as a baseline - after all, the only one he could be sure of at the time wasn’t a Cylon was himself). So if he did test himself, why would he think the results were false? They certainly proved to be right in Sharon’s case.

Rose is spot on, you’ve got to try to get the TVWoP guy on. I’ve run across his BSG take before, but apparently it was just the placeholder “what I just saw” entry and not the seventeen pages of snarky/insightful analysis. I’m reading his take on “Rapture” right now, and all I can say is “Frak! The boy has some serious chops.”

Les, it’s intersting to see when she physically interacts with his environment, I don’t think we’ve seen anything yet that indicates Six has a physical presence, but we can’t rule it out either…

Don’t foget when 6 said “I’ll always havve your heart and I can pull it right out of your chest” and when she put his head into a mirror and the whole Shelly Godfrey episode. He’s not just in love with her…he’s terrified. Every time he shows some ndependence she controls him.

I loved this week’s episode. Roslin is scary when she yells! And any episode where Gaeta gets more than two lines is good for me. I’ve liked his character since season one and I liked the way he’s been given more to do as a character. I hope next episode we get to see how big of a black eye Adama gave him. The sound effect on that punch was a little nauseating. I think it’d be great if unassuming little Gaeta was a Cylon all along. BUT - I think if he really was a Cylon, he’d be much better at killing people. He sucks assassination, but I give him points for resourcefullness. If he actually killed Baltar with that pen, I’d say it was even more impressive than flashlight-wielding Adama beating Leoben to death at Ragnar.

Looking forward to more Galactica Watercooler!

Anyway, I believe that the Cylon God is responsible for the sudden evolvement. I think the Cylon God is real in some way whoever that is. Maybe it turns out Baltar is it himself. .

Similarly, the basestars were probabally originally mechanical but later joined with a humanoid variant into a “hybrid” basestar/humanoid.

Pike said:
“The Cylon/s/z were created by man. I think you’re flashing back to the original, where they were the creations of a (now extinct) reptillian race.”
No, I’m not refering to the original. What I meant was that we know that the mechanical Cylons, the toasters, are not (very) intelligent. They are just following orders by the humanoid Cylons. The baseships are controlled by humanoid Cylons (the hybrids) as well. But we are told that 40 years ago the Cylons build by men started a first war against the humans. But back then there were no humanoid Cylons. Only toasters. So who gave the orders to the toasters and the baseships 40 years ago? Did the humanoid Cylons kill off the former (mechanical) Cylon ruling class?

We know the Cylons think the future is Hylons, will we see more acceptance of this on the human side?

Who gave the “12 models” note is as yet unanwered. Perhaps Baltar, which would be an interesting card for him to play at trial.

Not sure about the Kobol thing. I thought they had located it before Starbuck left, but I’ll have to check on that.

The Cylon/s/z were created by man. I think you’re flashing back to the original, where they were the creations of a (now extinct) reptillian race.

Tans, interesting idea. That would give “Final Five” a different twis-, er, spin. Problem that I see is that the shapes of the five seem to be adultish in size. Also, how would Three recognize any of them? And why appologize.

Hmmm… That just inspired a thought.

Maybe “Final Five” doesn’t mean “the five we don’t know about yet”. Maybe it means “the Final Five survivors after everyone/everything else is destroyed”.

After all “All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again.” Suppose the last time around there were only five survivors (who maybe built the temple?) which would imply there will only be five survivors this time around.

Suppose the show is taking place in our distant past. The Colonials and Cylons get to Earth and find it a perfect world, but uninhabited. There is a final battle and most of them are killed or destroyed with only a handful of survivors making it to the planet.

Five couples, each consisting of one human and one cylon. The “final five” of each race, giving birth to a new species… us.

Who would they be? We know Athena and Six are Cylons and there is heavy speculation on Cally, Dee and both Starbuck and Anders, so let’s guess:

Helo/Athena
Tyrol/Cally
Lee/Dee
Starbuck/Anders
Baltar/Six (?)

Thoughts?

Defense will use the presidential amnesty, that a gun was literally to his head, the series of arguably illegal actions by Roslin, Adama and company. I am sure that the Colonial Constitution prohibits torture for example. Baltar has a decent legal argument. Might have a little trouble finding an impartial jury…

More and more I think they are heading for a finale that merges the humans and cylons into one new race and that the show takes place in either our far future or distant past. I would bet may quarters that there will not be a military resolution with one side or the other dominating / destroying the other.

Sween, regarding the true nature of the Head 6 and the final 5. I think you might be right. If the Head 6 would just be a figment of Baltars imagination this wouldn’t explain the Head Baltar of Caprica 6. Also it wouldn’t explain how Baltar could have learned about the whole “shape of things to come” story line, that he has to guard Hera, that there is only one true God etc.. Nobody else was telling Baltar about the Cylon religion. The humans didn’t know about it until they captured a copy of Leoben (the one who Starbuck tortured). So how could he come up with that in his head if Head 6 were just in his imagination?

Also when they were on Kobol Baltar “projected” that he was with Head 6 in the old opera house. But D’Anna saw exactly the same setting in a vision when she was constantly killing herself. In that vision she saw the Final 5 would be getting revealed to her and then she saw it again when she went down to the Temple of 5 and stepped into the light coming from the supernova. So how could Baltar see the same inside of an opera house on Kobol which D’Anna saw in the Temple of 5? An opera house destroyed several thousand years ago.

When Head 6 told to Baltar she is an “angel of god” it is probably close to the truth. Whatever that is. Maybe telepathy or something else the Final 5 use to communicate :-). I don’t know. But there must be some form of “communication” unknown to the regular 7 cylons. Otherwise the whole vision thing of D’Anna wouldn’t make sense.

Cravatar, regarding Baltars rights you are right. Roslin issued clemency for all collaborators and instead appointed a truth commission. Also, isn’t he still the President of the Colonies? Anyway, he gave knowingly a nuke to a Cylon. Some humans of the group who worked with the Pegasus 6 must know about it. But probably they will not tell about it. BTW, when they searched Baltars lab and quarters for the route to Earth didn’t the notice that the nuke they gave him was missing?

Tanstaafl, the Cylon detector of Baltar worked but when he talked with Head 6 we learned that he intended to lie about the results and let everyone pass. We don’t know how many people he tested (the process was very slow) but we know that he doesn’t know who the final 5 are. We also do not known whether they have restarted the tests or not.

Rich McCarty, interesting thoughts about the nature of the Final 5.

Fnord: I agree, Zarek is not a Cylon. He was 20 years or so in prison and in a cell on a prison chip when the Cylons attacked. It would make tactical sense for the Cylons to have some known terrorist 20 years in prison.

As for who is going to die: the Adamas, Roslin, Baltar, Starbuck, Tigh will not die. All others have to be careful.

Some questions I have:

- When Baltar asked for the nuke didn’t Adama say that there were only 4 nukes left aboard Galactica? Or were it 6? One was given to Baltar and later used by the Pegasus 6 to destroy Cloud 9. But anyway, when they were threating to nuke the algae planet they had 7 missiles.

- Who gave the note about the 12 cylon models to Adama in the mini series?

- When Starbuck returned with the Sharon copy (the later Athena) and Helo from Caprica with the arrow she jumped back directly to Kobol and not to the fleets last position from where she started with the captured raider. How did they know where Kobol was and that the part of the fleet with Roslin was there?

- We were never told how the humanoid Cylons were created and took over the Cylon government. Who was ruling the Cylons before the humanoid Cylons were created?

I feel like some dirty politician watching the numbers come in! lol

Oh yeah, I’m hating the Super Bowl. The space Nazi says “No BSG for you!”. But the good/great news is that BSG had a bump in ratings this past episode past the 2 million mark again (up 13%, which is huge) and this new time slot has lead to a gargantuan boost in the 18-49 crowd, especially among women. So if a little shipper stuff helps the show last longer, I’m all for it. Typically a series is like a movie franchise, the next show’s ratings is reflected in how bad/good the previous episode was. I think that in two weeks it might even be better since “BSG Cheers” was an exceptionally great episode. Anyway, the (projected) 1.8 rating that the episode got was tied for the highest of the seaon with “Occupation”.

I’m sticking with my Cylon triumverate: Gaeta, Dee, and Anders. There is just something too odd about Anders sudden brain wave, Gaeta’s trumped up attempt on Baltar’s life, and Dee’s strong grasp on Lee. Not all of the FF5, I’ll grant you. But they just don’t add up any other way.

PS - I don’t believe Lee is in it for the long haul. He was ready to drop Dee like yesterday’s news (twice) and just kept her around because she said yes when all he wanted was Kara. I don’t believe he loves her. Yes, people may say he does. But he’s pretty much just a whiny baby who wants it all. I know someone’s going to be annoyed by that, but there it is.

Baltar gave Six access to the defense mainframe in exchange for “favors”. You are right that he didn’t know that she was a Cylon, but he knew that he was giving *someone* access to restricted government computer systems for *something*. Whether he thought she was a Cylon, a freedom fighter/terrorist working for someone like Zarek, an industrial spy or simply someone with a mainframe fetish is irrelevant. He knowingly gave someone access to restricted government systems. That’s pretty much treason no matter how you look at it. The fact that what happened makes him an accessory to attempted genocide is beside the point; he’s still guilty.

I must say a tad annoyed at Sci fi’s bonus scene malarky, having to go to the web to watch the rest of the episode kinda rubs me the wrong way…

I’ve been watching old season 1 episodes and if you’ll remember, Gaeta at one point really idolized Baltar. He was thrilled to become Baltar’s assistant on the Cylon detector and very much on Baltar’s defense during the whole Shelley Godfrey framing. He even told Baltar “I just couldn’t believe a man like you would do such a thing” or something along those lines. Imagine if your idol then turned out to be a weak, snivelling puppet who was willing to sell out the whole human race, and then YOU were accused of collusion with him? I’d be pissed too.

Starbuck seems so nonplussed about the whole Eye of Jupiter thing. If I were her, I’d be going crazy trying to figure out and learn more about the design! And has Roslin eased out of her religious phase now that she’s cured? Because she hardly ever talks about the Scrolls or the gods anymore.

This is obviously a character that she had interaction with. I grant that she may have had that interaction with Gaeta on New Caprica, but did she do something to him where she would ask for forgiveness? If so, I don’t remember it.

The obvious plot ploy is to direct our attention to Baltar, as a result of her torture, but I think this is to obvious. So, where does that leave us? Who did her character interact with where she would ask for forgiveness.

I throw that question to the group for speculation. Other than Baltar, I can not remember an interaction that would have prompted that response.

On a side note - I really like the idea of Tom Zarek being a cylon…..there just has to be some symmetry in that that would intrigue both RDM and Richard Hatch. That, however, goes nowhere toward explaining D’anna’s remarks.

Baltar is about Baltar and he certainly was a poor politician, but he has a good side in a strange way. What a great character, he is so smart and intuitive but also very naïve, when blinded by his own ego. When escaping from Caprica and the lady had the glasses on her head and said can you help me I seem to have lost my glasses the look on his face should I do this or not, then the fear when Helo says aren’t you Baltar “I haven’t done anything, this lady has ticket number 47”

The pardon is a big one and should come into play at the trial, and ultimately I think Baltar has to wind up back with the cylons, but he is so much more entertaining when he is with the fleet.

Baltar is trying to figure out the cylons, the final five, the location of earth and God, but he is doing it for Baltar and to satisfy his own curiosity and fascination, not to save the cylons or the human race.

Having seen the bonus scene, I wish they had put it in the regular episode since it goes a long way to explain why Roslyn would go for a trial. She wants to nail him for the genocide, not just what happened on New Caprica.
I think I’ll try to get that episode off the web, there’s a lot ponder here.

Oh, and Pike, I LOL about the swirl reference!

Also, if you can get Baltar amnesty that the rest of the fleet enjoys; then one can argue that there is again no grounds for removing him from office. I know some of you guys who have been posting for a long time here will say I keep coming back to this; but he was never removed from office. They assumed he died. Laura presidency is illegal and Baltar is still the legal president.

Cavatar

(sorry)

“Roslyn calms Gaeta very quickly by assuring him that she believes he went to see Baltar to kill him. Almost soothing him.”

I think Roslyn was distracting him and I actually don’t think Gaeta went there to kill Baltar. It looked more to me that what Baltar said to Gaeta set him off. And what did Baltar say? Well another big secret (RDM:supposedly it was related to a cut story line) personally I think it could be left open for now and scripted later as needed, but it would be something that he only wanted Gaeta to hear, “there are far worse things than being a traitor…”

Gaeta slept with Baltar, I think that is reaching, but definitely entertaining…

Gaeta is tossing in his bed as we hear a soothing lullaby on the ship (GREAT opening, by the way - EJO is a wonderful director!!).

The restless Gaeta goes to the brig to see Baltar, but it’s never quite explained what his motivation is.

Later, as Gaeta enters the brig to talk to Baltar, the scene is intercut with the scene between Apollo and Dee. Baltar leans very close into Gaeta as Dee takes Apollo’s hand. Baltar says to Gaeta something along the lines of “We all have secrets…perhaps I should tell them…” and that sets Gaeta off. Roslyn calms Gaeta very quickly by assuring him that she believes he went to see Baltar to kill him. Almost soothing him.

Of course, he’s then clocked in the face by the old man, which was great!

Now, considering

- the lack of solid motivation for Gaeta visiting Baltar in the beginning of the episode

- Gaeta’s history of being Baltar’s assistant, both on Galactica and on New Caprica

- His general obtusive nature (like he’s either very shy or has something to hide)

- His loyalties lie with the humans (he’s assisted them on multiple occassions), though he stays near Baltar and seems torn by this

- The decision to cut between a romantic scene and the Baltar/Gaeta scene very quickly, even though they seemingly have very little to do with each other

I think Gaeta may have been literally sleeping with the enemy. Baltar is slimy and sexually deviant enough to allow it to happen - in fact, he may have caught on to Gaeta’s tendencies and exploited them to keep him around in case it would come in handy later. So if he’s ever found out, he won’t go down alone. And now, it’s coming in handy. In fact, the more I think back to previous episodes, the more it makes sense for me.

I think this may come out during the trial and we may see the last of Lt. Gaeta.

Does anybody else see this?

One possible explaination, Boomer had some kind of memory tranfer thing going on (which is how Athena could share those memories.) What if her last D/L was after the Adama speech?

Here is an interesting thought on the “Gaeta is a cylon” theory in episode 100 MINI SERIES when they discover the cylon device under the dradus console Gaeta says that he first noticed it a couple weeks ago. This is probably just a story / filming flaw but they show the console several times and the device is not there, which I found puzzling. If not a flaw that would mean 2 things:

1) Gaeta is lying about seeing it which means he probably planted it.
2) If he planted it he would remember planting it, unless like boomer in WATER he is a sleeper, but that wouldn’t fit with the final five.

It also seems that the final five are kinda like the ascended beings in stargate, so I don’t quite buy a big reveal of finding out who is the next cylon. I see a reveal as finding out more about the final five, how do they relate to the other cylons, what are their motivations etc. Seems kinda lame to just keep unveiling cylons.

With all that said Adama is tied in there somehow, like starbuck and the eye of Jupiter.
In episode 100 he give a speech:
“the day comes when you cant hide from the things that you’ve done anymore.”

Then later on ragnar station Yoman says:
“sooner or later the day comes when you cant hide from the things you’ve done.”

So how did Yoman and Adama wind up saying exactly the same thing?

Last point, the weird music in the opening seemed to overlay only certain characters, kinda like “head” music. Does anyone remember who they showed the music with besides Baltar and Gaeta?

Rosyln was so great in this episode. I’d really been missing her presence. Plus it was nice to see her go so ballistic on Baltar and to see her yell. I’d been thinking some about her character lately too in regards to the “prophecy (sp)” and that damn book of Pitihia. Wasn’t it that first religious leader who told Rosyln about the leader guiding them on the path to Earth and not surviving…? We’ve had some fun teasers for 3.5 and they left us with three big questions…”One will die, one will realize they are a Cylon, and one will find Earth”. While there has been a great deal of plot/tease to indicate that Starbuck may bite the dust or be one of the final five, I’ve been thinking that it might just be a roose and that the “big change” that will happen at the end of the season will be the death of Rosyln. Zarek would become the Prez (how fun would that be…?). Starbuck will find Earth somehow, and who will be the Cylon….dunno. (sorry if this is starting to ramble on a bit). Mary McDonnell is a fine actor and I could see her going out with a bang this season. May be the chucked’ (sorry Chuck) the prophecy or feel its resovled somehow with the Hera cancer cure, but I could see it coming back….

Just food for thought. All the best to everyone. Rock on.